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Post by hugehorn on Dec 27, 2022 20:32:34 GMT -6
How many teams are in this year? It was 42 last year.
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Post by seniorhockey7 on Dec 29, 2022 20:02:35 GMT -6
How many teams are in this year? It was 42 last year. I’d say if more than half the teams in the province enter provincials, it’s a win. Deadline is Friday for rosters. |
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Post by steeball on Dec 30, 2022 4:29:54 GMT -6
OK full disclosure, totally ammeter hour here. Without knowing pickups how would you rank teams according to current standing? How would you fill the brackets?
I'll start:
A - Kindo, Kenaston, Wynyard, Davidson, Wilkie
B- Leroy, Wadena, Kyle, Foam Lake, Eston
Just a start for the top 2 divisions, southern teams will have something to say. No disrespect to teams not mentioned, just a start for speculation purposes.
I also know that rosters would have to be in earlier to have a ranking system realistic,
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Post by Tiger on Dec 30, 2022 8:24:46 GMT -6
OK full disclosure, totally ammeter hour here. Without knowing pickups how would you rank teams according to current standing? How would you fill the brackets? I'll start: A - Kindo, Kenaston, Wynyard, Davidson, Wilkie B- Leroy, Wadena, Kyle, Foam Lake, Eston Just a start for the top 2 divisions, southern teams will have something to say. No disrespect to teams not mentioned, just a start for speculation purposes. I also know that rosters would have to be in earlier to have a ranking system realistic, You have a very good start here. What this proves is that it wouldn’t be hard to do a provincials by ranking. Some people watch senior hockey in Saskatchewan very closely and understand the competition level in each community. This would keep teams like Kenaston and Kyle out of D that should have teams like Cabri, Perdue, Hanley, etc. |
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Post by ridinpine on Dec 30, 2022 9:27:48 GMT -6
You could rank their regular season teams. Then if teams want to add, they would have to move up a division for the players they add. Could say 2 or 3 additions move you up a division. It would make the rankings much more accurate. Very tough to rank teams when they add/combine without seeing them play.
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Post by yardsale on Dec 30, 2022 9:46:39 GMT -6
This new system may work to get more teams entered, but it will hurt marginal local players on “A” teams. A team like Kenaston would have to drop the bottom third of their team. Cabri, until this year was one of those teams. As good as the strong C/D teams are they’re not as deep because they draw from smaller populations and play by the import rules. 25 years ago teams dominated provincial designations. Drake and Conquest owned D for nearly a decade. Most of the teams entered had no chance to beat them. Drake had two ex NHL players. So teams only enter when they think they can win? You can’t legislate parity. Kenaston had three tough rounds to win last year. Lost two games.. Not sure why there needs to be a big overhaul. The “working man’s” leagues do great and I love that they exist. But to overhaul everything so we have four draws with 20 plus teams doesn’t make sense to me. If there is a big push for a non import division do that. But teams will push the limits there as well. Plus, where are you finding refs for all these games??? It’s going to be a huge issue this year and probably the biggest issue facing senior hockey.
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Post by Tiger on Dec 30, 2022 10:31:07 GMT -6
This new system may work to get more teams entered, but it will hurt marginal local players on “A” teams. A team like Kenaston would have to drop the bottom third of their team. Cabri, until this year was one of those teams. As good as the strong C/D teams are they’re not as deep because they draw from smaller populations and play by the import rules. 25 years ago teams dominated provincial designations. Drake and Conquest owned D for nearly a decade. Most of the teams entered had no chance to beat them. Drake had two ex NHL players. So teams only enter when they think they can win? You can’t legislate parity. Kenaston had three tough rounds to win last year. Lost two games.. Not sure why there needs to be a big overhaul. The “working man’s” leagues do great and I love that they exist. But to overhaul everything so we have four draws with 20 plus teams doesn’t make sense to me. If there is a big push for a non import division do that. But teams will push the limits there as well. Plus, where are you finding refs for all these games??? It’s going to be a huge issue this year and probably the biggest issue facing senior hockey. A ranking system wouldn’t hurt anyone. The rankings wouldn’t get made until the teams have submitted their rosters. Kenaston wouldn’t cut any marginal local players-what would they gain by doing that? People who watch senior hockey closely would have no problem adapting rankings if teams add players. Everyone knew Outlook would be a great team last year when they added the Rosetown line. There are very knowledgeable hockey people out there that could rank all the teams appropriately. There shouldn’t be a team like Kyle and Kenaston in D. That’s where a ranking system would help. Those “strong C/D teams” that “aren’t deep” should mostly end up in C. For this year my C grouping would be teams like Kyle, Hafford, Edam, Eston, Carnduff, Redvers, Dinsmore. D should be for Cabri, Hanley, Radisson, Meota, Hodgeville. |
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Post by yardsale on Dec 30, 2022 10:58:38 GMT -6
If you put Kenaston with Kindersley then they would have to pick up multiple players. The real arms race is in A. Kindersley with their additions and their goaltending are just in a different class than Kenaston. Let’s not pretend otherwise. Most teams are in A because they have to be, they are filled with imports. Now you’re penalizing teams because they’re strong. Where was all this outcry when Wilkie was stomping teams and winning multiple banners? Davison had a great run too. Can we not strive a bit for excellence? I don’t need to see a marginal team hang a banner. That’s what you’ll have if you go to your system. Baseball is different. There were like 22 teams in all senior Baseabll Sask provincials last year. There’s no paying of players either. Totally different deals.
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Post by sexycoil5000 on Dec 30, 2022 12:32:06 GMT -6
If you put Kenaston with Kindersley then they would have to pick up multiple players. The real arms race is in A. Kindersley with their additions and their goaltending are just in a different class than Kenaston. Let’s not pretend otherwise. Most teams are in A because they have to be, they are filled with imports. Now you’re penalizing teams because they’re strong. Where was all this outcry when Wilkie was stomping teams and winning multiple banners? Davison had a great run too. Can we not strive a bit for excellence? I don’t need to see a marginal team hang a banner. That’s what you’ll have if you go to your system. Baseball is different. There were like 22 teams in all senior Baseabll Sask provincials last year. There’s no paying of players either. Totally different deals. There's no arguing any of these points! Not to mention that there have definitely been some very very questionable senior baseball teams win a provincial banner since they started ranking teams-but at least the tournaments are very competitive! I guess at the end of the day I just feel bad for the non-impact city players who commit to a senior team and their community but cannot be apart of any provincial runs. Such is life. Maybe changing the exceptions/non-imports is the answer or maybe the status quo is the only way to move forward! Good content for the forum regardless.... |
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Post by Tiger on Dec 30, 2022 13:55:00 GMT -6
If you put Kenaston with Kindersley then they would have to pick up multiple players. The real arms race is in A. Kindersley with their additions and their goaltending are just in a different class than Kenaston. Let’s not pretend otherwise. Most teams are in A because they have to be, they are filled with imports. Now you’re penalizing teams because they’re strong. Where was all this outcry when Wilkie was stomping teams and winning multiple banners? Davison had a great run too. Can we not strive a bit for excellence? I don’t need to see a marginal team hang a banner. That’s what you’ll have if you go to your system. Baseball is different. There were like 22 teams in all senior Baseabll Sask provincials last year. There’s no paying of players either. Totally different deals. I’d prefer to not put Kenaston with Kindersley. No one should go against Kindersley this year. It’s kind of an anomaly. Kindersley should be going AAA with that squad. Kenaston wouldn’t pick up any players because they wouldn’t know if they would be placed in the same division as Kindersley. I would be putting Kenaston in B if I could but with a ranking system they may end up in A - it depends on how many A or B level teams there are and whether you can get enough teams to make a decent draw. Under a ranking system if Kenaston didn’t want to get put against high calibre teams then they shouldn’t have 2 lines of semi-pro hockey players. Under a ranking system a committee would put you in the same calibre group that you belong in. Maybe A would only have Kindersley, Drake/Foam Lake, Wynyard/Lanigan, and a QVHHL team. Having a team like Kenaston in D and Kindersley in A ruins a bit of the excitement in provincials. Kenaston in C makes it better this year but Kindersley in A totally ruins the excitement of that division-it’s a foregone conclusion. |
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Post by rr11 on Dec 30, 2022 14:09:47 GMT -6
This new system may work to get more teams entered, but it will hurt marginal local players on “A” teams. A team like Kenaston would have to drop the bottom third of their team. Cabri, until this year was one of those teams. As good as the strong C/D teams are they’re not as deep because they draw from smaller populations and play by the import rules. 25 years ago teams dominated provincial designations. Drake and Conquest owned D for nearly a decade. Most of the teams entered had no chance to beat them. Drake had two ex NHL players. So teams only enter when they think they can win? You can’t legislate parity. Kenaston had three tough rounds to win last year. Lost two games.. Not sure why there needs to be a big overhaul. The “working man’s” leagues do great and I love that they exist. But to overhaul everything so we have four draws with 20 plus teams doesn’t make sense to me. If there is a big push for a non import division do that. But teams will push the limits there as well. Plus, where are you finding refs for all these games??? It’s going to be a huge issue this year and probably the biggest issue facing senior hockey. Wonderful post! Kenaston had to face Macklin, Edam and Craik...I and many others on here, the respective communities/organizations and players can assure that they earned the SHA D banner playing those 3 teams, no cakewalk rounds in either. Kenaston also won the SVHL for the first time ever...this plus their 3 D banners in 20 years is a great accomplishment but doesn't make them a juggernaut. Kenaston at this time is blessed with some very good locals who have connections to bring in very good imports. And what is wrong with that...game 2 vs Craik in Kenaston last year that rink was full and well worth the price of admission. Was there this much fuss in the 90's when Drake and Conquest ruled SAHA D? We should be celebrating the great hockey senior teams bring to their communities. And stop with the incessant need to change rules to accommodate everyone...here's a hot take: not every senior team in Saskatchewan is interested in a SHA banner, stop trying to believe otherwise this is the case! |
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Post by Tiger on Dec 30, 2022 14:22:05 GMT -6
This new system may work to get more teams entered, but it will hurt marginal local players on “A” teams. A team like Kenaston would have to drop the bottom third of their team. Cabri, until this year was one of those teams. As good as the strong C/D teams are they’re not as deep because they draw from smaller populations and play by the import rules. 25 years ago teams dominated provincial designations. Drake and Conquest owned D for nearly a decade. Most of the teams entered had no chance to beat them. Drake had two ex NHL players. So teams only enter when they think they can win? You can’t legislate parity. Kenaston had three tough rounds to win last year. Lost two games.. Not sure why there needs to be a big overhaul. The “working man’s” leagues do great and I love that they exist. But to overhaul everything so we have four draws with 20 plus teams doesn’t make sense to me. If there is a big push for a non import division do that. But teams will push the limits there as well. Plus, where are you finding refs for all these games??? It’s going to be a huge issue this year and probably the biggest issue facing senior hockey. Wonderful post! Kenaston had to face Macklin, Edam and Craik...I and many others on here, the respective communities/organizations and players can assure that they earned the SHA D banner playing those 3 teams, no cakewalk rounds in either. Kenaston also won the SVHL for the first time ever...this plus their 3 D banners in 20 years is a great accomplishment but doesn't make them a juggernaut. Kenaston at this time is blessed with some very good locals who have connections to bring in very good imports. And what is wrong with that...game 2 vs Craik in Kenaston last year that rink was full and well worth the price of admission. Was there this much fuss in the 90's/early 00's when Drake and Conquest ruled SAHA D? We should be celebrating the great hockey senior teams bring to their communities. And stop with the incessant need to change rules to accommodate everyone...here's a hot take: not every senior team in Saskatchewan is interested in a SHA banner, stop trying to believe otherwise this is the case! With a ranking system last year Kenaston, Kyle, Craik, and maybe Edam would have been in C where they belonged based on their skill and talent. D would have been available to the other teams that aren’t entering because they would have had to face Kenaston or Craik. |
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Post by rr11 on Dec 30, 2022 14:33:17 GMT -6
If you put Kenaston with Kindersley then they would have to pick up multiple players. The real arms race is in A. Kindersley with their additions and their goaltending are just in a different class than Kenaston. Let’s not pretend otherwise. Most teams are in A because they have to be, they are filled with imports. Now you’re penalizing teams because they’re strong. Where was all this outcry when Wilkie was stomping teams and winning multiple banners? Davison had a great run too. Can we not strive a bit for excellence? I don’t need to see a marginal team hang a banner. That’s what you’ll have if you go to your system. Baseball is different. There were like 22 teams in all senior Baseabll Sask provincials last year. There’s no paying of players either. Totally different deals. There's no arguing any of these points! Not to mention that there have definitely been some very very questionable senior baseball teams win a provincial banner since they started ranking teams-but at least the tournaments are very competitive! I guess at the end of the day I just feel bad for the non-impact city players who commit to a senior team and their community but cannot be apart of any provincial runs. Such is life. Maybe changing the exceptions/non-imports is the answer or maybe the status quo is the only way to move forward! Good content for the forum regardless.... Why feel bad for communities and players committed to teams who choose not to go provincials? This thinking that every team in Saskatchewan should be in provincials or make up some category to shoehorn teams into all for some banner needs to stop. For a great many...just icing a team to help keep the rink open and a place for locals/non-elite imports to play competitive hockey is good enough for them. And there is no shame in that at all...they should be commended like all other communities for their efforts to keep senior hockey going. The current rules governing provincial playdowns are such that allows more teams to enter based on the population rules...should they choose so. The current rules work, it just so happens that there are 40-50 senior hockey teams just aren't that interested in entering. |
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Post by rr11 on Dec 30, 2022 15:01:15 GMT -6
Wonderful post! Kenaston had to face Macklin, Edam and Craik...I and many others on here, the respective communities/organizations and players can assure that they earned the SHA D banner playing those 3 teams, no cakewalk rounds in either. Kenaston also won the SVHL for the first time ever...this plus their 3 D banners in 20 years is a great accomplishment but doesn't make them a juggernaut. Kenaston at this time is blessed with some very good locals who have connections to bring in very good imports. And what is wrong with that...game 2 vs Craik in Kenaston last year that rink was full and well worth the price of admission. Was there this much fuss in the 90's when Drake and Conquest ruled SAHA D? We should be celebrating the great hockey senior teams bring to their communities. And stop with the incessant need to change rules to accommodate everyone...here's a hot take: not every senior team in Saskatchewan is interested in a SHA banner, stop trying to believe otherwise this is the case! With a ranking system last year Kenaston, Kyle, Craik, and maybe Edam would have been in C where they belonged based on their skill and talent. D would have been available to the other teams that aren’t entering because they would have had to face Kenaston or Craik. Based on your ranking system comparing skill/talent levels...6 of the 10 D teams would be placed into C: Kenaston, Craik, Kyle, Macklin, Foam Lake, Edam. These 6 teams for sure are comparable in skill/talent so that would have left 4 teams to duke it out: Lucky Lake, Kerrobert, Central Butte, Debden. A 4 team D bracket would have been criminal without those 6 very good teams unless they went 3 of 5 series. Kenaston, Craik, Kyle and Edam rightfully belonged in D last year based on the import + population rules governing provincial hockey. The rules are such that more teams can enter such as 2-3 communities combining their best players into one super team, cut 6 locals for 6 imports to enter A, use population from 1-2 players added within a 125km radius. I believe the evidence is overwhelming that 40 or so teams just aren't interested in entering. It's not a fit for every senior team...and that should be left to them alone to decide. |
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Post by Tiger on Dec 30, 2022 16:06:50 GMT -6
With a ranking system last year Kenaston, Kyle, Craik, and maybe Edam would have been in C where they belonged based on their skill and talent. D would have been available to the other teams that aren’t entering because they would have had to face Kenaston or Craik. Based on your ranking system comparing skill/talent levels...6 of the 10 D teams would be placed into C: Kenaston, Craik, Kyle, Macklin, Foam Lake, Edam. These 6 teams for sure are comparable in skill/talent so that would have left 4 teams to duke it out: Lucky Lake, Kerrobert, Central Butte, Debden. A 4 team D bracket would have been criminal without those 6 very good teams unless they went 3 of 5 series. Kenaston, Craik, Kyle and Edam rightfully belonged in D last year based on the import + population rules governing provincial hockey. The rules are such that more teams can enter such as 2-3 communities combining their best players into one super team, cut 6 locals for 6 imports to enter A, use population from 1-2 players added within a 125km radius. I believe the evidence is overwhelming that 40 or so teams just aren't interested in entering. It's not a fit for every senior team...and that should be left to them alone to decide. You got it. Those teams should have been in C. The first year would be rough for D but I guarantee once other communities discover they will have a competitive chance in D then that division will explode. You underestimate the desire for other teams to enter provincials. If they had a chance to win then they will enter. Did it make any sense that the team that won C last year would have had no chance against the team that won D? |
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